P2s Mind Refreshing MailBox
An Essential MALE thought a day helps the better you evolve, each day!
Hi P2!
I’m an older teen who is torn between many of the people around me’s definitions of who they think I am or should want to be like. I am trying hard to “just be me,” honestly, and live from my own feelings, but most others just all end up using words they can’t even define, and think are “self-evident.” Well, maybe to them or their experience, but I just want to see what they’re saying as CHOICES, NOT demanding my “obedience” to one way of seeing me or any issue, ONLY! Or even worse, their acceptance of me or not as a friend, based on my compliance with their view of me, not their liking me for who I really am!
For example: My girl friend versus many different groups of guys and the activities we are given to choose from in school, mixes many of the different points of view about who I am, who they are, and what words like “sexual” mean or are referring to. We may all know what each other is talking about generally, but I have no idea what they are actually referring to much of the time.
I hope this little background intro made the question I am about to ask you about your work not only simpler, but was able to give you a little insight into who I am and what I am trying to understand about both myself and the people around me, which your writings do address underneath it all, but needs clarification for me.
So, Please, first, What’s the basic difference between Eros and Sex and then, second, What’s the basic difference between Sex and gender? Connect the dots there, if there are any.
Thank You, P2!
Jeff the Teenager
Hi Jeff, Thanks for the letter! (I'll start simpler and progress more complexly, but I do think you can pick up most of what I'll be saying.) Since your identity question borders on so many other guys' similar experiences, I'll address some of those too; so take what helps you understand your situation better, while letting those other males this will help, get some understanding! Just your question itself will be helpful to them as well, and shows you're a very smart MALE, who has the courage to not let himself be brainwashed out of his own genuine male feelings for all the social pressures surrounding him... yet!)
In essential terms, Eros (in sync feelings life is giving you, honestly for and with others) comes first, you are born with it, and Sex (mating intercourse) is an aspect OF Eros (not the other way around). Most boys get the default trigger to impregnate female pheromones by about the age of 13, and if they haven't gotten older male help with how to enjoy and control it first, they are stuck in rules made for those who haven't! Eros, as an essential life term, going back to ancient times and recognizing it in the mythologies rising up around it, is simply all those you are attracted to, combined with all those who are attracted to you. It is your actual essential HUMAN identity. (free of anyone's categories to put you into or values judgements about you or your feelings. Eros is simply the feelings life gives you inside from being with those who you like and / or being with those who like you. Period)
As for the confusion between Sex and Gender, Sex is being inferred in this situation as the body type you have, and Gender is being determined, mainly by women, as giving us labels for how they see us acting WITH the body type we have. Thus a male is expected to do societally approved GENDER roles and functions they have had devised for him, in order for a male to follow the cultural schemas which direct us to "winning" the "prize" of being able to marry a woman to validly use our penis at all. Lots to say about that, but simply, for you, if you have a penis and balls you are a male, and if you have a womb and vagina you are a female, as far as sexual (body type) identity goes.
Gender refers to the attributing of a label to a particular person's use of his/her body type (sex), which often connotes an emotion of value judging how different people feel about the lives they are living and expectations they are trying to follow, compared to given societal expectations. Genders can vary, depending on how people either live as expected to by society, or chosen by themselves, by degrees, instead. We are always "ourselves" but are forced to think of ourselves as others' gender definitions of us create a socially assumed Gender Identity: a SOCIETAL identity most seek acceptance from others for having.
Yet these distinctions and discussions (sex is primarily biological and gender primarily social reflections) never seems to get as far as understanding how so many boys, thrust into the black or white world of social expectations of "child or adult" only, and females as caring but males as insensitively determined, lack the male friendship and intimacy they crave. Men are told to stay away from "children" primarily to prevent males from impregnating girls who aren't ready to take care of the resultant babies yet, and growing boys still mistakenly associated with such children by women who haven't learned how to "pass the torch" of the KIND of love a boy needs, as I present in my books for better understanding of our different body types and feelings, not wanting to be called "children" (which they are NOT as soon as they reach the "growing boy stages around 7 or so [another important male issue which my books address]). Such boys may thus sometimes feel forced to choose to think of themselves as "transgender" for the sad fact that so many radical females have spearheaded charging men as sexual abusers for trying to share needed MALE bonding feelings of support, approval, appreciation and affirmation, with boys, without regard for Males' feelings about it. Such boys then feel that the only persons they know who can be kind or tender with them at all are females. Such boys assume they have no Male sensitivity or sensuality to learn about, that they will only default to triggering to impregnate women who will then see them as monstrous for trying, (as if we were living in a dystopian setting which we're NOT) like any animal, and so decide they would rather be a caring female, or more like her, than an uncaring male!
Can you see how the flawed definitions our social narrative still uses without analyzing itself, and male intimacy deprival our narrative forces us to live with led many boys to bad decisions they may never be able to change for the rest of their lives, once they set such an emotionally erroneous premise (only girls and their genders can give or receive human care, males cannot) into a transgender course of assumption? Imagine a chicken having no one but a duck to model themselves after (waddling after the mother duck and squawking like a duck) and you'll better understand the dilemma boys are facing by being raised by female feelings entirely instead of genuine Holy Spirit guided GOOD Male Eros affection based friendships and intimacy feelings!
In cultural terms, the words “sex” and sexual are confusingly used interchangeably, and connote mating (opposite sex urges to DNA match for the survival of our species) intercourse along with all its responsibilities, onto whatever it points to, regardless of whether it’s referring to the same specific behavior or issue or activity or not, as if all foot sizes MUST get the same general size sox simply because you have feet! In this case everything you do with your penis is treated the same way too, because of what a penis means to the social programming defining it.
The way people use the word "sexual" today may really be saying they only have a general idea of what is being talked about and know what they FEEL from the values judgements about, but are unable to really explain it even that far. So it’s coming from emotional connotations someplace in their minds... something they saw or heard or were made to think or were warned about, or even saw on Tv or a movie or the internet, and just associate to, using a familiar word we all know to refer to it with, usually with upturned eyes, and complaining if you don’t take it as threateningly as they (associatively, by connotative female emotions) have been made to feel about “any such thing,” themselves.
Over time civilizations’ attempts to have more control over the consequences of our feelings for each other, and the people in particular groups they’ve defined, themselves, have led us down many “rabbit holes” of specific focuses and definitions which ignore all others. Many mistakenly assume that intercourse with the opposite sex, and the responsibilities of raising a baby that can entail, is all that the word “sexual” can mean or should refer to, and everything else connected with any phase of or similarity to that, is referring to that as, as well, whether you think it should or want it to, or not. It’s also actually a way of preventing you from criticizing what they are saying, because they’ll belittle you if you ask for further info about what they mean, and tell you “Well Everyone knows THAT!” Well you can tell such people next time they put you in that position, that the more someone says “Well Everyone knows” without specifically and in detail describing what THEY were actually talking about, they are admitting they said it as an excuse to cover up the fact that they can't even explain that what they're talking about is actually only their BELIEF about it and use the majority opinion as an excuse to hide that fact, and that few are the people who really do know all about it. What they really 'Know' is how everyone reacts to the statements and "news", and copy it for the security that numbers can bring them. Hence they only really “know” the values judgements and feelings surrounding some aspects of a topic they may proudly feign experience with, but may simultaneously be a topic they have been made to feel “offended” by, to even mention (probably what they were made to feel to silence their questions when they were too young to challenge it)! Many use an unrepresentative example to describe this entire realm of behavior, not caring that they haven’t presented it as a partial explanation or an extreme, maybe just wanting to pretend they know something about it, and that THAT should be enough (because they are in unfamiliar territory they don’t want to be condemned about or show their ignorance of!)
Such people and social expectations conflate male arousal, your loving feelings, and your very living up to who you are (identity) with finding and keeping a woman in the social rules and public opinion expectations you are living in to have any socially valid use of your penis at all, and any other use of your Eros feelings to be labeled either deviant, dangerous (without explaining in detail to whom and how), perverted, assault, inappropriate, molesting, sinful, or criminal. It seems they have so much trouble seeing it any other way, that they refuse to consider that it should have other wider and more diverse meanings to balance it all out. It seems that they, like the people in Galileo's day, find more comfort in their communal error sameness, than joy in learning the wider truth of life, hidden from them before. They would rather be certain, if actually wrong, and just give it a "Godly" reason, despite the fact that "God" never said the sun went around the earth, or that the earth was at the center of all creation. Likewise they want to blame male TRULY GOD GIVEN EROS as horrible and dangerous while demonizing and hurting those who try to tell them they are wrong! In such mistaken reasoning, they think (mistakenly) that large “E” Eros is only the small “e” “erotic” that comes backwards from the male default trigger to impregnate a female for the survival of our species, but not FORWARD from the life resources feelings we were all given according to the design and form, male or female, we were created with for our human relating care about each other, especially in many diverse bonding relating stages. No wonder we have such a hard time being genuinely friendly and call others "strangers!" Its a female problem our maleness was created to make up for, not be subjugated to obey or be demonized into being alienated by!
This kind of erroneous "sexually abusive" assuming and subsequent fear mongering can immediately be “exposed” for the illogic it infers when you realize that a boy fetus has boners in the womb, and that they are NOT “sexual” (except in the mind of the person who has no deeper understanding of male arousal than reproductive union every time a boner is so much as mentioned, let alone seen or normalized as a part of a male's own feelings to value in a Holy Spirit.)
In short, ESSENTIALLY, MALE Eros is the Human Resource life gives males, fused into a MALE design with it’s accompanying missions and dynamics, which is circulatory in its function to relate, connect and extend humanity far and wide (and bridge differences with it when possible). While Female Eros is the design life gave her, with her accompanying missions and dynamics, to be and provide a safe place to bond with fetus and helpless baby for it's own survival, until it can get the help it needs to survive without her supplying all it needs, all the time. Gender is the kind of roles and functions, jobs and expectations the GROUP around you (family, culture, society, civilization, etc.) are surrounding you with expectations to emulate, and you are normally born into and react to and from. So, EROS is what you feel to connect with others, motivated by feelings life gives you to, inside yourself. Sex, while tacitly referring to your body type, male or female, is inferring intercourse with the opposite sex and culturally means you are taking responsibility for the raising of any progeny resulting from that intercourse. And, Gender is the way you live in your sex (body type) through many personal choices, from which you are seen as (given a social identity) by others (and your attempts to satisfy them)... often so full of cultural requirements, values judgments and categorical expectations and definitions for them, that it’s all they see in you, or even you in yourself, as a result of being so immersed in that focus.
Realize that in order to see these crucial distinction differences you must be able perceive them from a philosopher's higher consciousness, not just the cultural ground level mentality of compliance and its automatic reactions... to rise above the everyday fray, to see the deeper meanings and choices that were there underneath, all along while others had you focused “elsewhere.” Boys are BORN philosophers, with a natural and circulatory Truth seeking curiosity and genuine honesty which helps them recognize and try to accommodate differences, all with GOOD WILL. But when boys are pressured to live others’ negative mentalities or points of view instead of a boy's innate life given good will appreciation of life around him, his own life affirming essential one, such boys start becoming like those who live by fear. A situation which the writers of Genesis may actually have been referring to as the "Original Sin" of all mankind, thrusting males OUT of the heavenly experience of relating with others, for female's fears of it, impacting our male consciousness and our subsequent reactions, literally changing our male experience of reality.
Thus... Until we can help our cultures and civilizations rectify how they have let Female's unnecessary fears of our own Male Eros selves influence our definitions and reactions with them and with each other... your ultimate challenge of consciousness is to manage to hold onto both your own natural experiencing of life and any culture's points of view trying to take it over, (by recognizing how private and public realms can be separated in your mind), giving both their own due, by living from your nature, and regarding cultural programming as such (Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's). As you learn to support this way of thinking, you'll become a wise man for your efforts, and Holy Spirit feelings for life yours to wisely perceive, Jeff!... a path I wholeheartedly believe in and encourage you to continue your intelligent questioning to walk. Within yourself first, as your base, then increasingly with those who will listen, around you, thus bringing your real self conscious identity with you all the time!
Plato The Second
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May 2025 Topic: What normal Eros life was like in Jesus' day and prior.
Concern:
Dear Plato, The Second:
I’m a 24 year old Anthropology major who is intrigued by your writing... It seems so full of portent, yet, even with all my other readings so far, I can only sense what you’re trying to explain. And while I have to hand it to you, you are doing a marvelous job considering not only the complexity of the subjects, but the forces of those out there who really want to make all the uncertainties of life nothing but unquestionable dogmas, (probably because they’re so afraid of finding out the REAL truth, that they just don’t want anyone to know any more than they do, and so demean research), readers need to raise their consciousnesses too, to fully comprehend what you are explaining. So, since you look like a real ground breaker to me, feeling that earth move beneath their feet in their minds, they are probably going to feel very uncertain of themselves trying to read your work.
Of course all they need to do is learn how to raise their consciousness, then they'll see the WHOLE story too! Right?!
Well, that said, after having read your April Mailbox and considering just what the difference between Eros and Sexuality that you bring up and want us to explore with you so deeply, are and entail, I have related questions. I mean, even after reading Fr. Keenan’s super needed work in the GOMVP website’s “Guest Authors” section, it’s even difficult for a dedicated student of humanity like myself to see just what Eros was BEFORE the last few centuries that started using “sexual” terminology! As I see it, People have basically stopped using Eros with any accurate understanding of what it means, as if it were only some kind of primitive way of saying the “sex,” which we all think we “know” about... BUT reminds me that "A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!" and "The more you know, the more you know you DON’T know!"
I go to school at a major Midwestern university, but I get the feeling you are either European or live in Europe somewhere... I sense you are like a human empath and a listener to our unspoken male feelings, combined. I feel we could have some great discussions just having lunch together! And that you may just inspire my PhD. Dissertation of the not too distant future! I feel I don’t have to travel to a primitive tribe to add to the world’s understanding of itself, but do need to examine... like you... what our own cultures and civilizations have done to impede our male emotional progress, and how doing so has been the curse Fr. Keenan discusses. I've read your book enough to see that a new social narrative including males' interest this time, IS the Anthropological sense we need to optimize our male feelings for life, NOW!
Let’s help make Male Eros a BLESSING AGAIN!
Response Raulf, the Reasoner
Great to know you Raulf, If we can ever arrange to cross paths, I’ll be happy to discuss the male situation in the world today with you over whatever you like for lunch! And please do think about how addressing these issues can become your PhD dissertation! I’ll be happy to answer your questions personally, and help you achieve such a goal, if you like!
Here’s the oversimplified answer to your question about what was probably normal Eros in the historically recordable past. It takes philosophical deduction to intuit what was just there, free of today's categorizations.
Eros, going back to ancient Greece and Rome, far before humanity tried to wrap it all up into a few values ridden boxes, (the initial compartmentalization which our earlier social leaders were guilty of institutionalizing and today’s leaders mistakenly maintaining) was all who we are innately attracted to, combined with all who feel an innate attraction for us... FREE of any of the values judgments or societal expectations which want to pigeon-hole us if we dare to care about someone they don’t feel familiar with or comfortable about. It’s our Eros feelings and honesty that changes our everyday acquaintances to special encounters, and all humanity with it, a life designed result.
By contrast to our essential male CIRCULATORY selves, what we call “sexual” today really comes from culturally defined reductions OF our fuller Human Male Eros Resources into a dominantly AGGRESSIVE identity backing up a “controllable” box of what is acceptable in the expectations of those around us. Boys get a default trigger to impregnate the female sex for the survival of our species from nature, by around age 13, but instead of helping him ready himself and learn how to use that gift intelligently from the sincere interest of wiser older males, culture does all it can to divert his attention with warnings and “pastimes” to involve himself in which actually cause him to avoid his honest feelings, NOT either learn how to develop them nor pursue more enlightened ways of sharing his male self and relating honestly with it, in a male valued society... one that would see his humanity as more important than training him to be a weapon against the world around us and being made to think that females are the prize we get for doing so! In short, what we are referring to as sex, sexual or erotic, in our cultures today, is BACKWARDS from the roles we play and functions we perform in current culture’s defining, NOT FORWARD from the human resource of Eros feelings for each other that LIFE gave us to relate with, (of which "sex" is only an aspect OF Eros, NOT the fully multitasking resource of Male Eros life gave us). “Modern” civilizations may be ahead technologically of most of the former human groups you may be studying, but we are actually behind where they were emotionally, and even thought they had to give up, wanting to "be like us" once they saw how we were living, to enjoy our successes (as visibly more accomplished and with more to show for the way we organized ourselves in this “modern” civilizational order and narrative), but... not understanding what they were giving up to do so!
To help put that in perspective for you Raulf, and here’s a once in a lifetime chance for you to explore ways to help all people understand their priorities better, by intuiting emotional comparisons of the results of given ways of life and their narratives ... as part of your upcoming Anthropological Dissertation. For example, imagine the life and times of Jesus, the Christ. Compare his “son of God” identity as meaning someone in touch with his own GOOD, God (life) given Male resources, and realize that the son of man temptations offering him success in life were from those around him wanting, even expecting him, to dedicate his male self to a non-circulatory and localized, one woman, not all people, way of looking at life. THAT could very well have been his “struggle in the desert,” from which he decided he would rather be his real male God-given self, more than his societally determined DNA based husband and father, Hebrew expected maturity. What we see Jesus doing, from the philosophical levels of intuiting his spiritual struggle, was LIVING out his GOOD WILLED MALE Eros in a world that valued something else more... and realize here that any nakedness or stimulations outside the public sphere were normal and not condemned for anyone, except probably as the public displays which Diogenes upset so many with in earlier times, would have been there too. Of course it was the realm (Public, as opposed to Private, Interpersonal or as in todays internet world, Cyber, realms) Diogenes was doing it in, and how it disturbed everyone’s concentration, not so much the activity itself which though normal was deemed repulsive too.
The only bodily behavior that was “sinful” then, which we might rightly call “sexual” today was against what the Bible forbid as “adultery” (leaving of a woman and child depending on you, and causing the group to have to provide for them because you didn’t take your marital responsibilities seriously enough) or possibly taking a wife but spending so much time away from her that she felt she had to beg from the society around her just to either have a place to live or get food for her and his children with her, or that he still had so many relations with other women, that it caused her worry that he might never come back. But please understand right here, that if we compare BEFORE the time of early living together in social groups, that no one was married per se, and that children came and went with whom they were familiar with, and our own GOOD Eros helped us give to each other what we felt they needed from what we felt we had to give them... not only physically, but emotionally, mentally and spiritually as well. It's life that gives us pleasing feelings to give to each other what we all need from each other (more about that and just what the better definition of "love" is really speaking about ("I know mine and mine know me"), later). Love is affection based and Eros enhanced, and helps us all be independent parts of the whole, not anyone's possession. The sooner a boy learns this, from the community of caring older males, the better for him and everyone else, as far as LIFE itself is concerned!
Much like Father Keenan realized about the disparity between current man made church “sins” and God or even Jesus declared sins of the past NOT matching them, it’s long past time that we change what is essentially our FEAR and CONTROL based “sexual” perceptions of human life relating, (as Jesus shed assumptions of a fear based God) and while not condemning present lifestyles for those who still want them, give those with honest and generous feelings for others, especially for young growing males (those with a sense of their own likes and dislikes, identity and future potentials, and the desire to connect with older males to learn more about his options from older males who care about him) the breathing room each needs to optimize their MALE lives. I do believe MNN is The Way to solve The Boy Crisis and The Male Solution to the CMD*... and all the other problems boys have as a result of the loss of their Male Nature Nurturing bonding relating with older males, despite girls getting Female Nature Nurturing (often misinformed) with older females as much as they want.
While there are anthropological terms for the mistake we make when we assume we know how former cultures or civilizational orders lived and saw life, from the standpoint we are currently in ourselves, most don’t connect those dots to see the importance, let alone the differences that I just made clear here. Notice that it was not a “sin” for Jesus to either be naked or share, for example, masturbatory activity with those he felt a oneness with (I know mine and mine know me). While we today might assume that he should have been called a sinner if he did, simply because churches preach that in his name do today, but don’t understand either who he really was, or what he was actually doing to make life better for us all was composed of. To keep present Radical Feminist proclamations of “sexual sins” is like going back to the days of early Puritan fear based preaching of bodily sins and condemnations like Nathanial Hawthorne’s Scarlet letter outlines. Leaders can misuse their religious positions to authorize policies against human love which Jesus himself never would have, and which God himself created us to involve ourselves in, with a Holy spirit, not demonize from seeing nothing but an UNholy spirit in it.
The fact Jesus CHOSE NOT to get married is a tacit clue to what he was up against in his culture. Marriage, as helpful, stabilizing and securing a way of life as it can be, is a man-made institution which locks you OUT of relating to other people, as we were created to do, and into feeling guilty about being ourselves so that females displaced (from fear for babies survival) worries’ can be quelled, when what she really needs is for some savvy male to stand up and tell her to deal with her paranoia before her blaming male behavior LIFE gave him, for all the problems she faces in life, deceives us all out of seeing the deeper contextual conflicts going on inside her. She is feeling love 24-7 in the many bonding stages with the young she is a part of, but when males try to return to any of the male bonding stages with boys they are designed by life to share in, and lived for millions of years before our current cultures' deprival of them, without making the needed distinctions for what I give the terms MALE nature nurturing bonding relating, some women go so crazy from displaced fears, that many mistakenly interpret females' vociferous complaints about male behavior with the young to mean she must somehow know more about young males than males do... despite the fact that women have never been a boy, or a man, and never had a penis or an erection or an ejaculation... Indeed, it can become very clear to the thinking male today that males' specialization to power and strength wielding has left him specialized OUT of his Male sensitivity and Male sensuality so much that males must write a blank check to maintain and further females' sensitivity and sensuality at the very expense of males even knowing what his is, let alone how it differs from hers! A process that has left us without the innate bonding with boys essential to boys learning and living their true masculinity and Holy Spirit guided, boy respecting versions of it, with a new narrative including Boys' (and all males') Rights, for our cultures and Modern day civilizations to live.
As an anthropology student yourself, you know quite well not only how demanding the Industrial Revolution was for males, but how it falsely normalized boys out of older males’ lives, and the negative effect that has had on males ever since. But as if that wasn’t enough, today’s Radical Feminists are misusing the power of the feminist movement to use boys as a proxy for the way FEMALES feel about intercourse in today's world, and acting as if the only reason an older male has intimate feelings for a boy is because he is trying to take advantage of the boy the way she feels he is taking advantage of her, from not understanding who he is and how his LIFE GIVEN design and mission are importantly different for him to live, for ALL humanity. She assumes an older male's attraction to and interest in younger males to be no different than mating with her... As if it's just a selfish displacement of the way he is supposed to treat a female. Women today have lost touch with the male being anything more than a tool she can use to make her pipe dreams of life certainty seem real. A Radical Feminist may mistakenly believe that World Peace depends on all of us living more like women than men, but clearly she doesn't understand the mutual give and take respect need for our actual GOOD differences to be appreciated and accommodated with each other.
While males and females are both equally HUMAN, it is an overlap, not a sameness at all. Two different designs. Two different ways of experiencing human loving feelings... both having both nurturing and mating attractions in their own design. Both having a full range of both the most tender and the most aggressive abilities, within their own body type (sex), to react to the environments they find themselves in, but finding that in our cultures today, and for the last recent centuries too many, that women are a gender that has been given all the sensitive roles and functions and human authority to determine what they mean for both sexes, as if there were no difference, while males were given a gender designation by cultures where they do all the outside safety work, and fight when necessary to protect the woman and children they supposedly possess, but are only expected to discipline and keep order, creating a severe generation gap. This system may seem to work, but not for males’ emotions, just females. Emotional extortion of males lives to serve females pipe dreams is the result. And we keep going along with that program, as harmful as it is for our true masculinity, simply out of fear we will lose all touch with any valid way to use our penis and its’ daily feelings to express ourselves at all, if we don’t keep her happy, even if ignorantly so.
So much more to say here, but I hope it's helping you raise your consciousness enough to see what we need to do as males, and what you can do with your education, to help our culture and all modern civilization KEEP our technological progress and conveniences, while NOT depriving our boys and the older males they will become with such stunted emotional feelings, that they are either emaciated and lost, or rebelliously angry and lost, as a result.
Thanks you for your interest Raulf, I would like for you to keep me posted on your progress, and share you inquiring mind with me.
By the way I often spend time near Windsor, Canada, in case you ever get close and have some time to meet in the area.
Plato, The Second
Sincerely,
A better Male Optimizaton of our Male experience of Life is on the horizon, with a new narrative that includes our HONEST MALE feelings this time! ...
... But If we males don't work to build a better MALE experience of life for ourselves NOW, who else will? ... THIS may be our last chance for quite a while! Once AI starts looking to females for emotional definitions, instead of us too, the bias of their Female instinct feelings, well intentioned or not, will drown ours, and our real interests, with them ... Ad Infinitum ...
June 2025 questions topic focus:
Just why do women go so crazy if we dare try to discuss our wider Male Eros feelings, values, and caring intentions, especially when they vary from her perceptions of "propriety" while her own are deemed "sacrosanct"?!
Dear P2: I’m a businessman, living alone but not really enjoying it, who’s been married twice and divorced twice. When I read your June topic I saw a chance to express myself and explain my experiences in this way-too-taken-for-granted set of circumstances we find ourselves in as Males today. And yes, women DO get first very uncomfortable, then irritable, then indignant, then authoritarian then passively aggressive, then distant, then repressive, then oppressive, then alienating and even demonizing if you dare persist in trying to share your MALE feelings about issues that overlap hers, not only on given issues, but also for given roles and functions we share. They act as if being our male selves is some sort of offense to her “propriety, safety or well being!” But it’s HER attitude that is just that and worse... offensive while eliminating my input, to ME, if I dare try to be my own real self even a little of the way, while she keeps demanding the right to fully be herself!
I'm being emotionally suffocated!
I feel like I'm losing... my self
. help... Still puzzled, Fred
At first I thought it was just the individual females themselves, and that I had made a mistake about who to marry, but after such issues led to my first divorce, I thought so hard about what had happened, against my intentions, that I realized that there was something much greater going on here, something I couldn’t put my finger on, or mind into, accurately. Sure enough, as soon as I started trying to explain my honest feelings to my second wife, after our “honeymoon” was over, she began to act just like my first wife had. And it’s important for me to say here, that I AM a decent guy who not only provides A1 but goes out of my way to do the little things women like. I LIKE making women happy! But I’ve come to understand that they have no idea that my MALE biological dynamic is as important and helpful to understand and live as theirs is; yet my only value has become being used for female agenda things they don’t like to do very much.
While I must confess I haven’t bought your book yet, (I’m almost afraid to... afraid that I’ll be even more misunderstood than I am now if I try to explain that male feelings are just as valid, if not more so, than female feelings...) I NEED your help! Especially when it comes to boys ... I have two sons who have been told by my former wife to make sure they don’t come “too close” to me. Please... can you just help males like me understand what is going on in the brain of females like these? They preach equality 24-7, and have lots of female love, but don’t understand what male love is outside of mating. They don’t seem to realize that the human male is made differently than she is and both interprets and expresses the meanings of many of the same kinds of love she thinks only SHE can do, DIFFERENTLY than she does from her female instinct, in our MALE instinct perception and dynamic!
Question...........
Reply: Dear Fred, I understand. Raise your consciousness with me...
You are NOT alone. Men have puzzled over why females act the way they do for not only centuries but millennia! They’re human all right, but just like a banana and apple, which are both fruits, but have an individual identity, neither male nor female has the right to tell the other what they “must” do; apples can’t tell bananas to become red or stop growing so long, or how to grow or feel about anything more than bananas can force apples to be long instead of round, or be some other color bananas like better.
Now, to us... even the same looking human activities often feel and MEAN something different to us MALES than it does to females coming from her instinct as though no other human instinct exists, or should, but hers! So let’s just recognize, generally first, that we need to better understand, in detail, who we both ARE, to begin with. Here’s a quick overview to help your mind see the IMBALANCE of what's really going on... and, by the way...
Please DO read my books... V1B1 is a vital intro, and V1B2 (out in Dec 25) focuses on this topic question with more 'AHAs'! They take the deep dive you need to take to understand what’s going on and get under your puzzlement so you can rise above it's hold on you!
First, we both have biological and cultural identities. We FEEL our biological one, but are told to OBEY our cultural ones. Yes, males and females both have both. The females you describe are still under the trance of obeying their mothers warnings when 10 and displacing it everywhere for the ambiguity it left open and feeling of affirmation of their compliance with that generality gives them, while, true to their baby directed instinct, they go crazy with fear to disregard, for any chance they would be held accountable.
Biologically, the female is made to 1) attract a male seed 2) gestate the resultant fetus to term and 3) take care of the helpless baby until it can take care of itself. Then start the process over and over again. Her biological identity is focused on SECURITY. She feels loving motivation from life itself to shield new life FROM an outside world that has other intentions. Her womb is an inner sign that she was created to do just that. That girls grow to be women who conflate male arousal as inappropriate and dangerous onto males is ignorance of who we fully are as males combined with desire to be a good girl + live up to her mother's expectations for her.
Biologically, the Male is made to 1) produce semen 2) spread it, and 3) relate, connect and extend humanity far and wide. Our biological identity is CIRCULATORY. Males feel love in connecting TO the outside world, person to person. Males' penis is an outer sign he was created to share joy for life in personality complementation with many people he senses that connection with, not fear using it.
Second, each body design, male and female has an entire emotional dynamic particular to itself. Males to try to accommodate changing surroundings, and females to attract who's needed for their design TO them. We have a world today where females are so focused on their instinct being accommodated (from birthing) that they automatically assume any place they go which doesn't put them first is intrinsically a "danger" to avoid, and must accommodate THEM or be called "toxic" from their female instinct perspective.
Third, the more cultures and biology are aligned, the more peaceful we will be able to live with each other. When women's fear is displaced it creates needless pre-judging (yes, emotional prejudice) and makes us think or feel we need to get rid of opposing views instead of living and letting live or loving and letting love. In the past, before our modern civilizational progress and diverse cultural versions within the setup we now have, males took boys out of female bonding extensions and control to the community of males to live together in belonging with, anywhere between the ages of 7 and 10, and during that assimilation learned both who they were as growing males, and what they had to do not only FROM that identity to optimize their experience of it, but how to help the culture they were part of survive with their help as well. Please realize that resulting from the biological assumptions we have evolved ourselves out of in our current cultural design, has come the cultural problem we have as males when the freedom we were created to have and navigate becomes locked into a social system in which females are given all the sensitive / sensing / sensual accommodation, and males left to accommodate females' ones, or have none, for not having learned his own MALE sensitivity, sensuality, and sensing WITH older males as a recognized part of the cultural order and narrative.
Fourth, universally, we are at the edge of a detour out of our honest MALE feelings brought on by a cultural survival tactic that not only recognized who females are biologically (we all have a mother and have benefited from her care and interest) IN that dynamic, but felt so confident in letting her keep them, they also associated her roles and functions along those lines as well. If you were to imagine two long lines one for males and one for females, with each designating the left as the most tender and the right as most aggressive, you would find that although we BOTH have BOTH, that in this "Great Bifurcation" as I call it in later #s of the books of this series on our masculinity, males were more and more specialized OUT of our MALE sensitivity and sensuality sensing, relating and reciprocating (the Golden Rule, essentially) in order to weaponize ourselves in many ways as a tool to keep ourselves safe... but far PAST the time we actually needed to be so "strong" into a time when, in fact, females are mistakenly looked to for care, and males looked to for discipline as if that were our only identity. This lack of proportion crying "safety" or "danger" fools us all into self defeating compliance; our public cultural roles misleading us into thinking who should give caring personal attention to growing boys.
Fifth, and to keep this heads up for all males from getting longer than an introduction, understand that these conditions are abnormal in nature, but since we are still exploring the myriad intricacies and variations of infinite existence by working to accommodate how females have come to feel, despite their being either wrong for us or given so much power that they have literally set the emotional meanings and definitions for males and the male instinct INTO female terms, and used the authority she has to shield fetuses and helpless babies, very young children and growing girls (who all do need her help) ONTO the growing boys who then become confused by the emotional IMBALANCE and reach false conclusions about their MALE biological identity from a cultural order and narrative that has given females the ability to heighten their feelings and sensing life and expectations, and assume that the males have their own, which we DON'T... not because life didn't give us males special circulatory sensing feelings, but because our cultural goals and women's dreams set us into accommodating THEM, INSTEAD of who we are as GOOD Male Eros aware beings, First.
With all this alluded to and forming the backdrop, it is easier to tell you that the very reason man and woman do not get along is because we are both following cultural evolutions in which what we see in cultural expectations around us becomes more (mistakenly) important, than how we feel about each other when we are living the Golden Rule for real with each other. That women act the way they do is because they are now so much further along in developing their female sensitive and female sensual side, that few males even understand why they do, or what's so important about having MALE sensitive and sensual emotions for relating; what we are missing from not having developed our own. If you think of females as "airports" for new life to come through, you can indeed understand their importance. YET... they have not come to the point where they understand that us human spirit travelers did not come to their airport as if THAT (her) were our primary destination. We have great thanks for their caring service, but like any travelers are here for the reason of going further, not remaining in her emotional womb (let alone being defined by it!) Current marital arrangements that don't take that into account thus prevent males from growing as who we biologically are, or with the civilizational options awaiting us once we begin finding the value of Male Nature Nurturing we have lost, misleading us to think that females are our only comfort option or that we must do what they say and live as they like, or be denied our rights to offer humanity our positive side.
We find females today so developed in their own female sensitivities and sensuality and displaced fears that they continue to progress at our MALE expense (emotional extortion), and belittle our inability to accommodate them all the time, while they have been trained to think they know best, as if we are all babies they need to micromanage, even though she doesn't even know who we fully are, from her imbalanced version of equality. Thus accommodating "good boy's" obedience by ignoring our own MALE wisdom.
This is not to say that many if not most females are not good intentioned, but it is to say that they are simultaneously oblivious to the harm they are doing boys to make them think older males intimacy can only be a danger to them (as they were told for themselves as girls when they were 10-13 to keep them from having babies), but it is to say that she will continue to forge new paths for her female interests to be met and push us aside if we try to stand up for our own if we don't come together as males and tell her so and how. Something that is increasingly difficult as the environment BECOMES more and more feminine, and us more and more a part of her agenda, having lost touch with who we are as males, let alone how to help our boys progress as males in this female centered emotional world. Emotions may be invisible, but are the key to an enjoyable life, or one of misery leading to suspicion, anger, attack or even war from a lack of Positive Masculinity as an option for us to learn and live and be defined and identified by!
Thus Fred, your wives subjected you to their overconfidence, believing they were acting for ALL humanity as their feminist reflections were overly reassuring, while ignoring that your interests were not dangers or cheating, and something our social order needs to accommodate, not look to her as the only source of authority for our entire humanity's definitions of emotional meaning. If they thought you should be on the same page with their instinctual dynamic all the time to be acceptable, they were unaware that inside us both are two different purposes and emotional dynamics life needs to work in peace, and that males need more help to be understood, not more demonizing to eliminate as if our very male nature could only be a danger to avoid. In fact it is their kind of "Mother Bird Whammy" (Mother bond, connotative influence, abuse) that IS the danger for us and humanity's survival, acting like an immune system and our male instinct an outside threat to demonize and eliminate if we don't reflect her own. Of Course she needs to raise her consciousness out of her female instinct as such, to see and recognize the problem she is causing by doing so. Conversely, males must try to learn what they missed in female raised artificially culture affirmed boyhoods, and summon the mental understanding to explain to females what they are doing to us, and why leaving males with no male love to guide them with, leaves them to acting in unloving ways feminists assume is just her version of male propriety disobeyed, + thus in need of her correction.
In essence, females are continuing their design to give and receive security, in its many names, such as safety, or avoiding danger, or giving guarantees, or implicit contracts for relating, or certainty as a metric, but now displaced from the fetus and helpless baby it was designed to give those things to, because they needed them more than anything else, without the range and sense of need or proportion the male would have been able to give it, onto boys who need to learn their connective design, mission, life and potential, while women keep belittling essential male value from artificial cultural custom, when males don't prioritize her survival based mentality instead of their own, understanding nothing of the more advanced individual approval, appreciating and affirming love males can give at many appropriate levels if accommodating their Male Nature Nurturing development first! Even when women say they are "protecting" us, it's because they are using that excuse to keep their authority female, not because they're representing boys as males!
A better Male Optimizaton of our Male experience of Life is on the horizon, with a new narrative that includes our HONEST MALE feelings this time! ...
... But If we males don't work to build a better MALE experience of life for ourselves NOW, who else will? ... THIS may be our last chance for quite a while! Once AI starts looking to females for emotional definitions, instead of us too, the bias of their Female instinct feelings, well intentioned or not, will drown ours, and our real interests, with them ... Ad Infinitum ...
Sincerely,
Plato, THE SECOND
July and August's topic for letters... If older male intimacy is so important for a boy's male growth and confidence in himself, how can he (and his parent and authorities of all levels) recognize who IS offering MNN essential Male circulatory development as PMI based, from someone just trying to take advantage of him? [LONG RANGE GOAL] And what are some of the misunderstandings we need to clear up FIRST? [SHORT RANGE GOALS]
Keep Thinking... and Scrolling down...
When you feel locked out...
Stand up for yourself!
Boys NEED wiser older male interaction and familiarity ALL DAY LONG!
MNN (Male Nature Nurturing) understood and practiced with a new social narrative giving it the normality to exist, is The Way to give our boys the gift of their own GOOD MALE selves, BACK!
Read about the Dilemma preventing us from living it, here...
The Male Eros nurturing Male is the puzzle piece Cultures need to restore, and fit back in, to live the whole Picture of Humane Peace with one another we've lost!
Holy Spirit Guided Male Eros Development is the MAGIC Merlin lost when Morgana took him out of his male element...
Stand up for your heartfelt MALE feelings...
So you can become part of the solution to the puzzle we're living in!
How Males are being locked OUT of their loving circulatory selves!
July-August reply
From GOMVP:
Since many readers, mostly who haven't yet read "The MALE Solution to the CMD*..." are confused about the meanings of many of the terms discussed in our July Topic, we gave it another month, but still there are many (who need to learn more about the situation and problems facing our boys today who still can’t see how talking about these issues is important towards solving the seemingly unsolvable young male problems we all are victims of today. So let’s stop here to discuss the topic in public mode, not only to give you more time to read more of the writings of Plato the Second... Rereading if you have the PDF already, or ordering if not, P2's First book so you can give it the long deep read you need to fully connect the dots to solving the problems and digest the possibilities by sharing your thoughts with others also interested in helping boys (and all humanity with them) so that the resultant AHA light bulbs can start shining for you too!
Consider the following Chart Outline (in blue below) from an upcoming book of his, now on the drawing board, to help us have a better understanding of our own assumed selves, so we can put together a better social narrative that includes boys feelings and how boys can learn how to deal with them this time. Here’s that new chart and P2 to explain...
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Dear Sincere Reader:
The many boy problems which solving the CMD will help us solve along with it, will all become more solve-able looking to you once you raise your consciousness up to the 100,000 foot level my writings are introducing you to.
For example: to give you the short overview of the root causes of what’s going wrong for boys, I could simply say they need the Male Nature Nurturing that our present social order and narrative are not giving them. (See Phase 2 for Males... chart below) And the solution is to create a better narrative that will include MNN for them in more advanced versions we can create with Emotional Intelligence and Eros Intelligence. THAT would be our long-range goal.
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The Four Phases of Female design relating:
1. Mothering: For fetus 0-9 months, helpless baby 6-18 months, and very young child 1-5 years, each with it’s own older female life motivated loving feelings changing to accommodate the next type.
2. Female Nature Nurturing (for girls roughly 7-17, to support girl's female nature development, and often conflated with "Mothering," but very different, while still keeping the positives of "mothering" intact!)
3. Mating (In Nature when menstruation starts and pheromones start attracting males, or culturally, from young womanhood till Menopause sets in)
4. Family arrangements (Marriage and more)
The Four Phases of Male design relating:
1. Fathering (starting as early as he is able, and to the degrees possible)
2. Male Nature Nurturing Bonding relating stages (for boys roughly 7-17, not only to give boys personally appreciative support with their male nature normalization and development, but male belonging relating)
3. Mating (From Nature when the default trigger to impregnate starts, or manhood on, as culturally proscribed)
4. Lifestyle Independence and Family Choices (settling down and more)
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If you look at these important phases of our human development, again (above) this time realizing not only what the differences are between male and female at the fundamental design and mission levels, underneath any cultural (gender stereotypes) identities we infer on ourselves from parts of them, for various reasons, you would see that both males and females, respectively, are just reacting to the environment they find themselves in, and given loving support inside themselves, by LIFE, to help the young through all of them, appropriate to who they are.
Look again now, and notice how we have lost touch with our Essential Biological selves and their development by fast forwarding to what we have built with particularized organizations leaving us full of later anxieties we have imposed on ourselves as a result (The Great Imbalance) in that process. We can restore our emotional sanity (and without giving up our technological advances) by recognizing what we left out in our evolutionary social haste, by raising our consciousness above them so we can first vision to see them, then put them back in.
For example, like boys needing Male Nature Nurturing (MNN) which they are not presently getting, girls need Female Nature Nurturing (FNN) (which they are getting a degree of just by being with women all day) to a more advanced level than just continuing their mothering til adult, which is all many girls get today, and leads to confusion humanity wide. In today’s world we are all still living a prehistoric BIFURCATION of our cultural roles and functions in which Females were given all the tender human activity (from noticing her mothering stage, which we have all benefitted from) when we joined together in creating a cultural survival tactic to take on the other animals around us who had all developed into more formidably attacking species than ours, and from which we set all males into a continuing negative polarity to protect ourselves from, but ended up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of aggression which still plagues us now, by creating aggressive expectations and suspicions, even when they are not originally there...
That we keep seeing the world around us through the eyes of this Bifurcation (division of labor by body type) may have worked long ago, but should have been discarded as unnecessary, once we learned how to shepherd and control the animals around us. Many wise men (philosophers) of the past understood how we could improve our lives with improved social orders past that bifurcated state and suggested we organize ourselves differently. Both Plato and Zeno’s “Republic” versions have managed to survive to our own day and age, despite being written some 2300 years ago, but were never understood well enough to use.
What this means in simpler terms is that Mothers who are getting different kinds of Eros support inside themselves to do each of their female design’s missions (attract a male seed, gestate it nine months, and take care of the helpless baby until it can take care of itself) don’t recognize that their next stage in a civilized setting... helping growing girls mature (Female Phase 2 above) requires her to give up the mothering shielding FROM the outside world, so she can help her girl learn how to better connect WITH the outside world as the Female she is, gain control over her own female feelings and how to use them by degrees in this kind of social environment, while integrating them wisely, with older female practice to live the missions that give her life human meaning. Something both older and younger female will be able to enjoy a different kind of Feminine Eros than mothering, by learning and living femininely developmental degrees and associative relating for sharing approval with each other. (Something Mothering may feel, but doesn't teach for her focus on suvival and fearing what can happen to the fetus and helpless baby which have kept her busy, instinctually for literally millions of years, and still does, no matter how we try to adapt it today.)
Now come back up to 100,000 feet with me and recognize that many females don’t understand this critical phase change, and are misjudging not only male design and mission, (which they have little understanding of outside the male mating phase and the fact that males are how females receive the matching DNA they need to live all their stages and receive most of their female love for giving that support) but what kind and degree of relating their own helping of growing girls should be comprised of, as well. These are often the very females so ready to accuse, condemn, demonize and alienate males who don’t act like the expectations these kind of females, still living mothering, but not having advanced to their next phase enough to even understand the validity of their own Female Eros types and degrees, project and are "offended" not to see males involved in as she is. Of course males are NOT females, and don't have her mission or design, they have their own kind of relating with the young, especially needed by boys, but, as explained, not understood as such by females still stuck in mothering emotions that never grew to the female stage between mothering and mating! So, in effect these kind of women have become an immune system mistakenly blocking the male’s kind of Male loving support for growing boys... something MALES are eminently more suited to do and define, but forced to defer to female definitions from radical feminist invectives, and the laws they incited from it. That we pay more attention to these women’s complaints is like the case of the squeaky wheel getting the most grease... most males have become so focused on other behaviors for their socially conferred identity fulfillment, and reward of getting a female to possess in a married state, that they didn’t realize either what they missed in boyhood so they could stand up for boys now, or their own distress now so they could challenge the misconceptions we are all following like penguins focused on imitating the behavior of other penguins around them, even off a cliff! In our case, an emotional cliff.
It is because females grow to become women (social order genderized) and still have the jobs and roles and functions they were biologically given along with societal ones to match, that they mistakenly have been given authority to determine and define the meaning of ALL human emotional issues... all while males, so busy trying to focus on SOCIAL expectations in which their manhood identity means working, often in insensitive capacities that force them to deny their own feelings for the group and helping females achieve their dreams and female loving feelings even further, (even though females are getting much more love for life in their mothering phase than males are getting in what’s called Fathering today or all their socially dictated places) are out of touch with either who they fully are as male (what they would have learned had they had their MNN Phase (2), but couldn’t because they were being specialized OUT of learning the full range of the Male Design emotion, feelings and MALE affection based Eros enhancing development.)
Thus they were out of touch with the MALE sensitivity and MALE sensuality, including Intelligent Emotional and Intelligent Eros enhancements, they needed to help the male advance past the default trigger to impregnate the female for the continuation of our species, no matter what environment they found themselves in, and into the many degrees and hues of circulatory male loving behavior that were designed by life to give the whole of humanity a sense of their value, appreciating and being appreciated, and contented peacefulness as a result from which humanity would no longer need to fear male arousal, as the females we were all getting our direction from in this kind of social organization think THEY must "control" to be "safe." (from the mothering instinct never transcended by any degree) What we need to do, is to move into the supportive friendship of older males sharing self-control with young males in true boyhood experience with older males as wise companions for them, who help them through the experience with the joy life gives us all for doing so, and, in the male design ways and feelings particular to males... connection... not just shielding (as Mothering is set to do for the very youngest, and by continuing lesser degrees, so much so that by the time a child is 7, she should be passing the torch of human love from her kind of shielding love to the male's kind of connecting love.)
Lots to say here, which is why it’s so confusing to try to compress like this, but TRULY worth our time and effort to learn about and share. As for the many short range goals needed to help us reach the long term one, our very first one should be becoming more informed about the many other sides of this story, despite the fact we are never given more than two... females displacements as right or male feelings as wrong (insensitive), especially male ones that have not been fleshed out for social acceptance and inclusion from having been specialized out of learning about... told it’s all too “dangerous,” never allowed to judge evidence for ourselves, leaving us without our whole male range of emotions and life supporting motivation to keep humanity in circulatory care for each other instead of warring to “protect” one side from another HUMAN side, and the dystopian level of creating weapons capable of destroying our entire planet’s livability for any species at all!
But... before we look to blame women, realize that their female design and mission are GOOD, it's only the "woman" Radical Feminists have programmed into the leaders and imposed on all that needs Females themselves to examine and update. They need to work through their mothering based paranoia for fetuses and helpless babies' survival, not impose it on either growing girls or growing boys. As such women need to work on their more advanced stages of connective degrees and appreciation of the Human Male for the MALE he IS, not just what males can do to shield more women from the effects of their own misunderstanding of these issues! Helping men and boys share all day together is another goal, So Look to P2's next book (V1B2... coming out in Late December this year or early 2026 for more logic and philosophical understanding to help us navigate these issues better with! It will be a long journey but a worthwhile one!
PLATO, The Second
Sincerely
A better Male Optimizaton of our Male experience of Life is on the horizon, with a new narrative that includes our HONEST MALE feelings this time! ..
... But If we males don't work to build a better MALE experience of life for ourselves NOW, who else will? ... THIS may be our last chance for quite a while! Once AI starts looking to females for emotional definitions, instead of us too, the bias of their Female instinct feelings, well intentioned or not, will drown ours, and our real interests, with them ... Ad Infinitum ...
September's Topic Question: Who is a Female? Who is a Woman?
Does one have anything the other may not? Does either have the ability to understand a Male?
To: P2s Mind Exercising Mail Box (September 2025)
Well, Plato the second... I’m a feminist, but one who prides herself on not trying to impose the same kind of overpowering demands males get angry about just to get their way. I know you aren’t writing directly to women, but I think you want to hear what we think about these issues past the ordinary public opinion. I think you want women to “change their ways” when it comes to how we protect boys to raise them. In fact, the way you write, it’s as though you’re telling males that unless they stand up and tell us what boys REALLY need, that it is us (women) all you guys need to be protected from to be your real male selves! I’d be laughing right now, if I hadn’t already read Farrell’s Crisis book. So I do sense there is a real Boy Crisis and what you are saying has something do to with it... but I just can’t connect those dots to figure out just what that connection is yet. Women are best at raising children. What else is there to know?! I guess I’ll have to fork over the dough and buy your book just to see all the levels of reasoning and logic you are coming from, and try to actually understand your efforts; even though I doubt I’ll agree, but I’ll give you this much... if boys DO want what you’re trying to “sell” them as needing, whatever that is, then you or men like you should have stood up and said so long ago!
Al right, that all said, I just want to ask you... honestly now, because you keep saying that honesty and philosophy are what you’re interested in, are you a Misogynist or what?! Don’t you realize how much females have done for all you males?! Maybe us independent women should go to the sperm bank, buy some, and live our own lives without males at all!
Nevertheless, what advise do you have for women, whether you love em, hate em or could care less... though I get the sense you’ll say something like “God made us both one way, only for cultures to have bent that so far out of shape that males have had to bend over backwards to accommodate female feelings so far, that they’ve forgotten what their own male feelings are!”
So, come clean P2... how do you feel about women? Women like me want to know... before we get the idea you just don’t want us around any more... to which I’d tell you to just grin and bear it, “pal,” because as we women already know, it’s how most males feel about females and female interests that WE want YOU to change YOUR thinking about... “Women! Males can’t live with em and still be themselves, but can’t live without em or end up lonely!” So if you’re a hater, just put that up your pipe and smoke it Mr. Philosopher!
Gloria Stein-way, the 2 millionth (or so)!
And, oh yes, my take on the question of the month... The way I see the meaning of “female,” is that it refers to the instinct our female bodies are full of and we live automatically, while the meaning of “woman” is what societal forces around us have made out of us and give us roles and functions to relate to each other with, from it (otherwise known as “gender” and us in charge of what we want that to accomplish). We have a hard enough time understanding our own self, instinct, feelings, and life without even beginning to understand any males. If we come together fine, if we don’t, we can just be independent today, but we all know we are missing something in that kind of social schema, but can’t figure out just what yet. We think it’s all about protection, you must think it’s about something else. It’s just so easy to blame males because you are so different from our well accepted purposes and identities, that many females just want to pretend we are all the same so they can forget even trying to listen to your interests as more than boyish irresponsibility. Obviously we are not carbon copies, but if I do read your work correctly at all, most of the reason for me to continue reading you will be to figure out my female self from your 100,000 foot level, by analogy, as I read about your efforts to see what’s happened to the male since before “civilization” and it’s many social orders and programmings over time. I do believe we can come up with a better social narrative than we’re living now, but it will take a lot more time and effort than just two people like you and me reading a book together. Anyway that’s what I think right now. Now you can go to it and start explaining!
Thanks for writing with your honest take. Very original for a female, Gloria... at least it’s not the feigned offense so many females use to get their way and detour any serious discussion of anything, with! First off I actually like women... the good ones who still care about how males feel too... that is, when we’re allowed to have any feelings of our own through our own youth and on. I think today’s kind of woman is like a queen bee, busy making cloned drones out of males, extorting males with a bribed “prize" of marital "bliss" which ends up being something like a 5 minute stint with her as leader of the hive, after which he dies (emotionally as a male), for having lost his circulatory value in exchange for the “best time of his life!” (which he had within himself to share with many, all along) helping the female receive the egg she should have had naturally. If we keep going the way we are... the Stein-way as you call it... then very probably the human race will turn into a new breed of insect... albeit a very large one... males obediently finding a place to work in the societal “hive,” females taking over the reigns, and everyone secure in a place in the whole community’s (un-thought-out) acceptance of.
God (life itself, if you will) had a better plan; a caring Male Eros Lifestyle. The very cornerstone Jesus tried to put in place to circulate loving support from person to person and place to place, only to have the old wineskin interpret the meaning of his life as “other worldly” instead of other narratively... and in that misunderstanding mislead the masses on this planet into a different perception of his message than he intended. Yet we keep maintaining it for a lack of "eyes to see, ears to hear, and male feelings to experience" for the last 2 millennia!
The "children" women are best at raising is best understood in nature itself. Mothers in nature, human mothers included, are given loving feelings motivation to not only keep the fetus intact within her protective womb, feed the helpless baby (instinctively with her breast), then feel residual care for the very young child (less than 8) to navigate many unknowns, but realizes it's all to help a young person become independent. Boys continually growing at such a rate that he has a life of his own, even while she attracts a male seed, gestates it til birth, and feeds it as it grows to be more independent, and starting the process all over again. Youth are supposed to become more independent by learning how to reach out to the world which welcomes him or her with other motivations which life gives us all to keep life going, freely. In short just calling someone a "child" doesn't either make him one past 7, or any woman's "possession," nor your attention the only place youth, especially boys, can get what they need to grow independently. Because, when mothering controls too long, it impedes a boy's self knowledge, determination, male development, and true male identity. Lots to say here!
PS... as a ray of hope in this cloud darkened emotional present and future for the human male, I do believe most females WOULD be happy to recognize better just who the male of our species IS, and how giving him the benefit instead of the deficit of the emotional doubt really can help the world not only be more understanding of each other, but genuinely loving, and not jealously so at all. Women would see how passing the torch of care for boys growth and development to boyhood familiarity with caringly intelligent older males that males can enter into relating with many others for differing lengths of time and amounts of mutual interests by understood degrees of heartfelt Eros feeling. Gone would be the days of assuming a man to be a “cheater” if he loved anyone else to any degree but his socially contracted wife! Gone would be Alimony (for reasons to be discussed in later books of the CMD series) and Gone would be Child Support (as we know it today) with it.
Thus, philosophically speaking, like oil in an engine only working when it moves, or blood in our circulatory system only keeping us alive when it continually picks up oxygen and nutrients and moves them FRESH to needy cells, males are made to move around freely and lovingly as real individual regarding friends to help and support others of both sexes and all ages (young males especially, as we are best suited to do when in positive polarity). Love is not to possess but to share. This isn’t the woman’s pipe dream of having a man and 2.5 kids to herself, "forever" but it does preclude the problems that not having loving males criss-crossing world wide to find those with problems they know how to solve and help them, would stave off if they weren’t yoked to “protecting” one woman only in a linearly single cultural way of thinking against all others doing the same for themselves in other cultures as well (like a bunch of one way arrows unable to care about any other arrows trajectory, let alone meanings or intentions, and just assuming the worst as if all they can expect others to do is obey or collide). If the ordinary woman would be allowed to think for herself enough to see all this, and choose to be part of a multi-roled type of solution, I DO believe male and female could work together, Gloria! But I hope by now you understand how important it is to give boys the help females have had all along just from being with women all day long but boys being separated from everyday assimilation with older males, have not!
Issues to consider to help solve the Boy Crisis together!
(And better raise girls and the women who care about them, as well!)
• How to BEST raise boys emotions and feelings and how to help them self regulate themselves!
• What boys really need... understanding of who they are and the support they need to be and share their unique value and be appreciated and accepted for THAT!
• Boy crisis problems all around today, and how the male kind of love difference can make a difference here!
• How reading the book, knowing the problems, and doing whatever you can will help...
• Males don’t even think they SHOULD have feelings, since they’ve been taught since the great Cultural Bifurcation many long years ago, to think that feelings are something feminine...
• Boys don’t know what they’re missing in this kind of cultural schema, and find that out much to late to be able to do anything about it... yet their feelings, and yes boys DO have feelings, have been put in a position that no matter what they try to do about these kinds of problems, (the DILEMMA I speak of solving for them) they find it’s either the wrong thing to do in the current cultural mentality, or that anything else they can do is not enough to get what they really need, want, desire, and crave AS BOYS!...
• No, I’m not a misogynist. I don’t hate the human female, I just hate what the woman she’s programming into a recognized gender is doing to males of all ages, and blaming us for causing!
• For now, males need to catch up on all the lost MALE sensitivity and MALE sensuality we have lost trying to chase mating so much we forgot we had a wonderful and motivating Male Eros to develop and share with our own MALE kind FIRST, and how doing so first helps us better consider life style choice agreements of many differing lengths and amounts with females wanting the same kind of agreement for their better understood independence too, all while leaving those who just want things to stay the same to live that way for themselves and not impose but offer it to others as a choice not a demand... like we would do were we allowed male emotional freedom once again and want to share it with those interested.
• KEYNOTE here... This sheds new meaning for us on how BELIEVING in our own Eros GOOD can prevent assuming only EVIL will result from trying to be our actual individual MALE humane selves. Yes... we've got to really BELIEVE in our Male Eros as GOOD to overcome women mistakenly exuding psychological brainwashing relentlessly, with connotated negativity, onto every loving thing males try to do, calling us "creepy" or evil, or "dangerous" by default! NOTE... all those descriptive terms are just values judgements they never give any representative details about, to be either academically or analytically accurate.
A better Male Optimizaton of our Male experience of Life is on the horizon, with a new narrative that includes our HONEST MALE feelings this time! ..
Sincerely
PLATO, The Second
Plato the Second's reply:
... But If we males don't work to build a better MALE experience of life for ourselves NOW, who else will? ... THIS may be our last chance for quite a while! Once AI starts looking to females for emotional definitions, instead of us too, the bias of their Female instinct feelings, well intentioned or not, will drown ours, and our real interests, with them ... Ad Infinitum ...
October's Topic Question: Who is a Male? Who is a "MAN"?
Is there a difference between the two designations? What do each see in a Female?
October's Topic: Just who is a "male", vs who is a "man" and do either know who a woman is?
Dear P2: I’m a Jr. High School (Middle School) Phys Ed teacher, who also is qualified to teach History when needed. I’m in my 30s. Before I give my view on the topic of the month, here's a prelude that will help light the way to just why there is such a big difference between the designations of who we are. I want you to know that 98% of my boys are NOT “children!” Our society has somehow locked boys out of being recognized for who they are as real people! Each boy in my classes is a YOUNG MALE. He is a real, unique and growingly independent PERSON in his own right! He should not be referred to by the category of “child.” Child refers to those who are still dependent on their mother micromanaging their existence, with little concept of self without her. A child’s needs, wants, and desires seek fulfillment in his mother’s attention. By Jr. High (6th to 9th grades, roughly ages 11 thru 14) boys needs, wants, and desires actively seek help from others, especially older males around them, whenever they are free of the mothers’ continually confining parameters. Such boys need to be recognized and regarded at their own level of perception and experience; doing so gives them confidence in themselves and the outside world as well as trust in reaching out to others like themselves for it, and on their own too.
Frankly I have come to see how boys are the most attractingly lovable, growing and relatable creatures on our entire planet... and that God MADE them to be just that way, so older males who have the eyes to see their value would be interested in them enough to give them the help they need to relate approvingly, appreciatively, and affirmatively with others and be more happily and independently mature as a result... with or without any cultural schema of expectations to accommodate themselves to. And yet we are made to believe we should treat them like women treat very young children... helplessly unable to make decisions for themselves or seek help or understanding from anyone but females. (Displaced Phase 1!) A boy's ability to make decisions for himself is seen as fraught with dangers he must not be allowed to go through the trial and error that often entails to learn. Discussing serious or deep topics requiring depth and focus are assumed to be outside his interests, when I have found just the opposite... that it is an integral part of his curiosity and stark honesty in finding the REAL Truth of life and his ability to live in its many environments that give him the confidence to keep looking for more, as long as you don't make a topic too boring for him to be interested in.
Yet, all that said, the closer I come to being a real human being with my students, especially in individually shared time together, the more I chance being looked at by other school staff as “suspect” because any male sharing friendship and play wrestling and even tickling boys to make them laugh is nothing but a “red flag” to their difference from females’ behavioral expectations, and therefore considered to be horribly deranged (out of the mentality of a sterile “safety” in which boys’ happy Male Eros feelings are neither recognized nor invoked, enlivening him or even integrated into his being, as it normally would without such fears)
Junior High boys are neither helpless nor unable to relate with others playfully and intimately. I see them playing around with each other in the showers and locker room, naked and not embarrassed as women would assume to be "inappropriate" and dangerous, every day. They have much advanced levels and abilities and MALE feelings needing encouragement and continual older male familiarity to learn and practice and associate with POSITIVELY... So WHY do we let females tell us Jr. High boys are nothing but “children” to be regulated by female expectations for them?! This is worth an entire book for you to write, P2! I DO know how to treat a boy... internally from my own MALE sense of the Golden Rule in practice... at his own level, and remember and feel what it was like earlier for me when I was Jr. High age. That’s one of the reasons I like boys so much... we have so much in common already. I’d never hurt a boy, even if you paid me to! So women should know that It’s as much an insult to men like me for a female of any age to say male intimacy with boys is “dangerous” as it would be an insult to females if I told them to stop kissing babies because as adults, women are full of and spreading adult germs a baby cannot handle, that such behavior of theirs MUST be considered dangerous to babies’ welfare, and thus suspect and incriminating to do!
Men like me are in touch with boys feelings from remembering how we felt as boys, and want to live the Golden Rule with them, only to have female and society constructed schooling models try to change education into an assembly line turning out better testing results, but interfering with the natural progression of interpersonal relating that Good teachers both understand and put into practice. It’s like I could be family with most of the boys in my classes, and many of them reach out to me, especially after classes, with all kinds of concerns... they know I care about them enough to give them an honest answer and intelligent advice! I should not have to be worried about what someone else thinks of me if I reach out to hug or give a boy personal attention. That should be considered the mark of a truly good and trusted teacher... with “trusted” not meaning what the mother expects from her mothering phase, but what the man and boy need from each other in the Male Nature Nurturing phase of boys continual growth! Something we need to explain to our legislatures and law enforcement!
Thanks to your writings, and GOMVPs, I can now say the difference between a male and a man is that the male is what God created us as, and the man is what our association with others taking group cues, and the choices we make both with them and without them makes of us, is the “man.” If society wants soldiers we have to practice becoming conquering heroes to be a man, but the more time we spend on aggressive training and preparation, the less we are training ourselves how to get through misunderstandings and forgive each other (which Eros recognition and development directly helps!). From this perspective winning at sports is a preparing of boys to survive in war, and often at the expense of our more sensitive and caring MALE emotions, though many sports are today acknowledging and caring about teammates' pain in such preparations, and coming closer to empathy for each others feelings because of, as a result.
If a Dad wants a boy who is strong, then his boy tries to accommodate him, but that’s just half of a males’ emotional dynamic. And if the boy doesn’t take to going hunting, and would rather pet a deer than kill one, that boy is much more humane and needs to be appreciated as such, NOT chastised or then disregarded by the Father who is still trying to further societal expectations as proof of his “manliness” to do through his kid what he thought he didn’t do enough of himself (lost in a negative polarity of others as enemies and his training to combat them as his identity).
I understand how your questions are more complex than they look, because when we ask ourselves if the male sees women differently than the man does, the answer is yes, but on many levels. Males and females do see love differently but talk about it interchangeably as if there is no difference. Males and females see life differently because they are built with different instinctual purposes and reactions. Men and women see people differently, even when right in front of them. Marriage itself, as helpful as the institution is, can be as detrimental to self development for males (as our social narrative currently defines it) as it is helpful to keeping a family stable and together. Most importantly, if either male or man is to see a female or woman’s full value and give her real male love he must first be content and happy in his own real sensing MALE identity first.
That’s where older males treating boys for who they are as individual males, not their mother’s “children”, comes in... Phase II as you call it, and my relationship with the boys in my Jr. High classes can give them (if I were allowed to blend personal relating into academics with them.) Boys NEED, want, desire and crave older male understanding and support, their approval and appreciation, and Eros filled fun (and its residual good feelings and good attitude for others) as part of their shared enjoyment in all they do to better deal with the ups and downs of everyday life itself, AS a MALE. Without Male Eros positively recognized and integrated, the boy isn’t optimized for his male self to grow independent, positively.
I don’t believe God made males to stay with one female very long, except for maybe settling down in his 40s with. The Mating Phase (Phase III as you outline in your writings) is how God created males to live with females, in temporarily meaningful encounters. And he created females to give off the pheromones to attract him to give her the seed she needs to be her full female self. In pre modern history, Females have always taken care of themselves, with the help of the community of older females around her. THAT's where the helpless babies received the help they needed until they could take care of themselves as well. Boys were customarily taken care of, by the community of older males from about the age of 7 thru 10,, depending on his particular tribe. This does not mean that we can’t put supportive love for the person females are into that mix to many differing degrees in helping create a more positive emotional environment for all humanity. So far most males and men have very little understanding of females and women in today's social narrative... just assumptions and criticisms based more on her roles and functions than able to understand her female feelings... and women's view of males is similar... she has her own mission and feelings, and wonders why we don’t prioritize what are actually her female instinct values! I leave it up to you, P2, to explain the many nuances and intricacies such discussion entails in your coming writings.
Bottom line, both males and females have their own mission, and no matter what the society created gender expectations for us we put on top of them as our "genders" are, we are happiest when we are being recognized for our real selves first, and helping each other become independent, sharing enjoyment of life, not possessiveness over, with each other.
Frank Teacher; student Friend and spokesman
Hey Frank!
Am I ready for the world yet?!
Keep up the great work and you'll help improve that world, not just survive in it!
Thanks for being you pal,
I'm here for you buddy!
F
P2s reply and commentary:
Well said Frank, I heartily agree with you! Especially about the first statement you made that most of the boys in your Jr. High classes are NOT children, though those around you and observing classes might call them that or keep treating them as if they are. I agree that they are growing boys... but further, that they are physically and emotionally in Phase II in their continuing growth... a phase PAST the mothering which feels love in shielding the helpless baby from an outside world that would eat it, but doesn’t seem to realize that as her boy grows past her mothering abilities, he would benefit more from the next phase of loving attention... coming from the experts on being male... older males, like yourself... in a positive polarity that cares and not only is dedicated to NOT hurting boys, but is dedicated to helping them learn how to optimize their masculinity for the level they are at, NOT the level they came from which women conflatedly point to as “their job” when clearly it is YOUR “job” (but truly a labor of Male Love, not an Obligation of societal demand)... Yet while we certainly want women to stay as loving as they can be, and share that with everyone to differing degrees, the TRULY loving women realizes there comes a time when the balance of the kind of love a boy needs shifts from her kind to the kind a male can help him develop. In truth she is presently conflating the activity of Mating (what I call Phase III) with the activity of Eros development needed for boys to feel ready, prepared, and experienced with his own sex already, for mating with the opposite sex, later, when women call any activity a boy has with his penis, erections and ejaculations "sexual," and older males sensing Eros feelings to support his Eros growth by sharing in it's feelings and recognition with him and for him, “dangerous;” for when she does, she retards the male development of both, harming not protecting, both!
If a man and a boy like each other and want to celebrate their masculinity together, in understanding ways, it is NOT abuse or attack... in passive actuality, women preventing boys from receiving their natural older male intimacy under the pretense of “sexual attack or sexual abuse” are themselves TAMPERING with the life given system of Eros growth to help boys appreciate and be in touch with their own GOOD masculinity and not only be ready for the mission with the opposite sex in phase III, but as a base with his own sex first, and thus able to love a whole different body type by phase IV, when he so has the desire in this civilized programming to do so.
Thank you for your letter and its honest expression, Frank. Your relevancy is paramount here, because, INDEED, "The Child IS the Father of the man." In large part, we become the kind of "man" (genderized male) we become, because of how we are programmed (raised and trained) and expected (by the 'reflective skin' of the outer world) to become. There are many women and authorities who simply never considered, let alone understood the relevancy of THIS side of the story and how it impacts the meanings they are using to arrive at their interpretations and make decisions with. They NEED to weigh this significance, to prevent making supposed cases of sexual attack, molesting, child abuse and the like all be turned into variations of “rape” in severity, in emotionally connoted presumptions. Another crucial element that HAS to (but isn't) be taken into account in determining the meaning of the behavior is the polarity (i.e. empathetic or unempathetic) involved, NOT the place on anyone’s body that may be admired, touched or even kissed! European countries like Denmark and the Netherlands used to weigh the boy’s feelings when an older friend was accused of sexual abuse with him, but the overpowerment of Radical Feminists influence imposing their elementary perception of the whole male story and the phases I mention, since 1970, had the effect of discounting bringing the boy's point of view on the activity into legal determination and court decisions. For boys, actual physical overpowerment against his will, (not "staturory" age difference) is what's problematic, and thus the KEY to determining whether the behavior WAS "sexual abuse" (Phase III displacement) "off-path," and incriminating, or needing Phase II Eros development, was naturally innocent; ON-Track to be his best humane MALE self.
You say you teach history when needed in your school, have you ever heard of a truly unheralded teacher of the early 20th century named Gustave Wyneken? He led “youth culture” movements in Germany and brought together many parents, youth and other teachers into “free school communities” outside the city, where they could emulate the Greek masters, and bring innocent Eros into the lifestyle that allowed them all to live together in a more naturistic appreciation of our own human nature as well as Nature itself! They encouraged older and younger males who felt warmth and care for each other to see and feel that as everyday normality for them. And, in finding their own ability to learn different activities together worked better that way, being in such a positive attitude and environment, that the older students formed such relationships with younger boys as a base for better relating and educational sharing, as a supported result. Realize here, that none of their activity, either man with boy or boy with boy, was displacing Phase 3 default trigger mating onto Phase II Eros development integration. The two are not the same thing, though our Modern societies never took the time nor did the work to help our male youth understand and live the benefits of being in touch with how they really feel! Most men were so focused on women telling them what to do to accommodate her needs in Mating and Marriage, they stayed in that mentality. So, by contrast we can see that the "youth cultures" were NOT wildly promoting Phase III (default trigger to impregnate) mating, which has reproduction as the drive of “sex” which motivates male and female to coitus many can't stop once they begin. These males were honestly creating a better attitude to see and relate to each other with.
The danger females keep talking about but never explain is simply getting babies they can’t be responsible for... or a fear of the pain involved in childbirth from not getting their FEMALE Nature nurturing support instead of just continued mothering (Phase I). Touching is how life communicates with us and each other, it is not only NOT "dangerous" but supportively helpful. The sad ending to Gustave's movement came when those jealous of his success took the situation to a nearby city with jurisdiction who then misjudged him by the metrics of the current city schools, as if the meaning of the behavior being judged could only be the same as their own regimented distrust, despite Gustave's better educational results, as led by personal older male guidance, in the country.
Gustave indeed thought he HAD to move his school to the country to get away from the continual imposition of attitudes which, consciously or not, resulted in promoting the UNLOVING male in the city. The bourgeoisie's (city's) expectations led males right into Phase III experience, without any phase II recognition, so when men married women they were still just learning to use their penis, not using it in loving ways they hadn't learned how to yet. (Remember, Mating is just the body's urge to impregnate a DNA match, not love for the person, though the wiser male can combine the two if he understands how) leaving men in the city with only one woman to mate with legally, and never having learned Male love from never having had a Phase II Male Nature Nurturing development to! Yet they found Gustave guilty of “homosexual” behavior (because they could only see his closeness as "unnatural" "sex" to them at that time [for their consciousness level wasn't high enough to see that Gustave's behavior was not only much MORE NATURALLY MALE with the boys than the city's were, and Gustave's youth culture school was NOT engaged in Phase III mating (sex) but in Phase II Male Nature Nurturing, in which it BELONGED,] and the city was denying it's teachers from experiencing with the students.) All that despite the fact his students all liked him and his teaching methods (which were called Pedagogical Eros) in which they were often able to be naked and close in the country’s many settings, and enjoyed their male body’s Eros in healthy exercise and friendship... INNOCENTLY! Yes, such a word combination as "Innocent Eros" DOES exist, it combines an affection base with degrees of Male Eros appreciation. Its’ just that we have never been allowed to realize it’s place in a social narrative that gave it no place (“no place at the inn” for a loving male to be born into or live as his Male Eros helps him have the “eyes to see” life positively with [because the old wineskin narrative can't see it without living it until they are born again (re-programmed) with it!])
So to affirm your answer to my own question to you, Males are in touch with and living life’s mission for them as LIFE created them to FEEL, while “men” are those males who are just using fragments of their whole masculinity to specialize themselves into accomplishing societal goals and women’s wishes (but so much of their consciousness is involved in it, that they lose track with the rest of their MALE range of feelings, lost in accommodating societal expectations.) By analogy, the Healthy Male Eros intelligent MALE is like the tree of life, bloomingly in touch with its own nature connection, and its own mission and feelings, while the “man” is like a piece of furniture made out of that then dead (unconnected) tree piece... and any socially created or “mankind” constructed gender just another piece of furniture... as fine... but artificially (disconnected)... as that may be!
Hence we see how very important it is for boys to grow up WITH older males who care for and about them for as much of their boy-lives (true boyhoods, when spent mostly with positive polaritied males) as possible, because when boys spend more time with males they grow more naturally into becoming more loving as adult males, but if left to spend more time with females than males, whether physically or emotionally or mentally, they lose something critically essential to their own MALE identities. That "something," I believe, is the major source of all the problems GOMVP is dedicated to helping us explore and set straight again... the gender gap, adolescent rebellion, the Boy Crisis, the Child Molester Dilemma, transgender miseries for so many young males, and shooting sprees upon being able to buy a gun ending up in tragic murders, mass shootings and suicides, misunderstood to be caused by guns, when it is caused by the feelings of a boy raised without enough older male loving feelings for him to appreciate and live his own GOOD MALE Eros caring self with.
A better Male Optimizaton of our Male experience of Life is on the horizon, with a new narrative that includes our HONEST MALE feelings this time! ..
... But If we males don't work to build a better MALE experience of life for ourselves NOW, who else will? ... THIS may be our last chance for quite a while! Once AI starts looking to females for emotional definitions, instead of us too, the bias of their Female instinct feelings, well intentioned or not, will drown ours, and our real interests, with them ... Ad Infinitum ...
PLATO, The Second
Sincerely
PS: GOMVP is looking for a source for reading English Translations of Gustave Wyneken's writings. One is called "Eros," among other titles. Please send any info you may have to: bnauthor@gomvp.me Thanks! Peace and Good will to you!
November's Topic Question: Do you think there is a difference between what males feel when they love someone and what females feel when they love someone? Do they overlap? Do they really understand each other?
bnauthor@gomvp.me
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